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phongle123

FREENAS and Virtualbox how to raid?

18 minutes ago, phongle123 said:

What do you mean by this? If the drives are visual in My PC. Doesn't Windows already have access to the drives? Wouldn't I still need to setup RAID to merge them together? I don't think any of the 3 I mentioned are Hardware RAID.

Don't setup any RAID in the BIOS or RAID card because this hides the actual physical disks from the OS. 
You should be able to merge the drive together using Windows storage space.

 

Basically you don't need a RAID card or RAID on the motherboard because Storage Space does its own RAID in software. Hopefully that makes some sense I am not very good at explaining things sometimes

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1 minute ago, phongle123 said:

I have tried a lot of thing I am going to list them.

1) In My PC. I have tried Formatting them in ReFS since you said Storage Spaces used ReFS. I don't know if I should have formatted to NTFS?

2) In Disk Management, I...

  • Initialized them so they all became unallocated
  • Then I did (to all of them), right click, new Simple Volume, assigned letter, ReFS format

3) I right clicked them in Server Manager and Reset making them unallocated again.

 

The only way I've gotten them to appear in "Physical Disks" is by the disk management VHDX method.

Okay, try to reset them, initialize them, but leave them unpartitioned/unformatted. Worth a shot?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Okay, try to reset them, initialize them, but leave them unpartitioned/unformatted. Worth a shot?

Did not work either, I reset them in Server Manger, then right clicked it again and clicked Initialize. This made it from Unknown Partition into GPT Partition.

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54 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

@leadeater are you familiar enough with storage spaces to know why the drives don't show up?

@phongle123

 

Run the following in powershell running as administrator

 

Get-PhysicalDisk | select friendlyname, SerialNumber, CanPool, CannotPoolReason, OperationalStatus, HealthStatus, Usage, Size  | ft

Get-PhysicalDisk | select friendlyname, SerialNumber, CanPool, CannotPoolReason, MediaType, BusType, OperationalStatus, HealthStatus, Usage, Size | ft

 

As to why an HDD can't be put in to a pool the most common reasons are it already has a partition on it or the Media Type isn't reporting correctly, for a virtual disk it'll always be wrong and you have to use powershell to set it to an SSD or HDD.

 

Set-PhysicalDisk -FriendlyName <serialnumber> -MediaType HDD

Example above for setting a virtual disk in a VM to an HDD.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

@phongle123

 

Run the following in powershell running as administrator

 

Get-PhysicalDisk | select friendlyname, SerialNumber, CanPool, CannotPoolReason, OperationalStatus, HealthStatus, Usage, Size  | ft

Get-PhysicalDisk | select friendlyname, SerialNumber, CanPool, CannotPoolReason, OperationalStatus, HealthStatus, Usage, Size | ft

 

 

2323.jpg

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On 12/15/2017 at 7:45 AM, dalekphalm said:

The main benefit of ZFS over NTFS is that it is highly resistant to bit-rot and data corruption, due to scrubbing and the way parity is calculated. It also makes monitoring drive health extremely easy.

@phongle123

Format your virtual disk that you make using Storage Spaces with ReFS and you'll get a solution very similar to FreeNAS and ZFS.

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Also try to reset the disks using powershell rather than diskpart, some people report it works when diskpart clean doesn't. Oh and don't initialize the disks.

 

Get-PhysicalDisk -SerialNumber <serialnumber> | Reset-PhysicalDisk

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
26 minutes ago, leadeater said:

As to why an HDD can't be put in to a pool the most common reasons are it already has a partition on it or the Media Type is reporting correctly, for a virtual disk it'll always be wrong and you have to use powershell to set it to an SSD or HDD.

 

Set-PhysicalDisk -FriendlyName <serialnumber> -MediaType HDD

Example above for setting a virtual disk in a VM to an HDD.

Am I only supposed to change the <"serialnumber"> code to the serial number shown in the Get-PhysicalDisk? I'm getting an error. I've never used PowerShell before.

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Just now, phongle123 said:

Am I only supposed to change the "serialnumber" code to the serial number shown in the Get-PhysicalDisk? I'm getting an error. I've never used PowerShell before.

Correct, you'll want to specify the serial number of the disks you want to reset. If you didn't it'll reset all disks in the system, it would fail on the system disk though.

 

Edit:

Thought you were quoting a different reply, same advice applies just that it would set all disks to HDDs.

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Anyway I have to go so good luck, I'll be back later to see if you managed to get it working. My advice would be after each thing you try run that command that shows the status of the disks and if they can pool, for each single step you do so you can figure out exactly when and what fixes the issue.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
26 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Anyway I have to go so good luck, I'll be back later to see if you managed to get it working. My advice would be after each thing you try run that command that shows the status of the disks and if they can pool, for each single step you do so you can figure out exactly when and what fixes the issue.

Thank you much. Powershell shows the 5x8TB drives as true now.

The Get-PhysicalDisk -SerialNumber <serialnumber> | Reset-PhysicalDisk worked

While the Set-PhysicalDisk -FriendlyName <serialnumber> -MediaType HDD kept giving me an error.

 

Now the problem exists like when I did the Disk Management-Create VHDX method. The Capacity is "total - a calculated amount of used space to = 2TB of free space"

Untitled3.jpg.be362893c86e7b32a7a8761c22eb58f6.jpg

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9 minutes ago, phongle123 said:

Thank you much. Powershell shows the 5x8TB drives as true now.

The Set-PhysicalDisk -FriendlyName <serialnumber> -MediaType HDD worked

While the Set-PhysicalDisk -FriendlyName <serialnumber> -MediaType HDD kept giving me an error.

 

Now the problem exists like when I did the Disk Management-Create VHDX method. The Capacity is "total - a calculated amount of used space to = 2TB of free space"

Untitled3.jpg.be362893c86e7b32a7a8761c22eb58f6.jpg

Weird, sounds like it's detecting data on there. Were the disks previously used in a RAID array or in FreeNAS? Try the Reset-Physical disk command in powershell, you will probably have to remove the disks from the pool to do it.

 

Edit:

Actually gone now :P. I'll pass the baton back to @dalekphalm

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Weird, sounds like it's detecting data on there. Were the disks previously used in a RAID array or in FreeNAS? Try the Reset-Physical disk command in powershell, you will probably have to remove the disks from the pool to do it.

 

Edit:

Actually gone now :P. I'll pass the baton back to @dalekphalm

Haha. Oopsies, I typo'd the copy paste and pasted both of them as the MediaType HDD. The Reset-Physical Disk was actually the one that worked for me. The disk has never been in a RAID array before just set up as a Virtual Disk to be set up for FreeNAS in a VM but I never actually got to raiding it as per suggestions to use Storage Spaces instead.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@dalekphalm, @leadeater

8So a simple restart fixed my 2TB / 7.28TB issue. I want to make sure I'm heading the right direction forward.

Do I click on the new storage pool then do I set all of them as Automatic or 1 of them as hot spare?

  • I did 4 Automatic and 1 Hot Spare and the total capacity showed 36.4TB instead of 29.12 since 1 of it is a spare.

I went on to create the Virtual Disk, selected Parity, Fixed size.

  • I stopped here, it only goes to a maximum of 19.4TB out of 36.4TB with all 5 drives.

I want to set this up as a Raid 5. It should have a maximum of 29.12TB for 4x7.28TB drives and the 1 Parity for redundancy ( instead of 19.4TB like it shows). Or did the 1 Hot Spare and Selecting Parity counted it as 2 redundancy drives?

 

edit: With all 5 on automatic and 0 hot spares. Setting Parity, Fixed only has a max of 24.3TB. What's up with that?

  • So with 0 Hot spare and Parity it took away 12.1TB for redundancy? 24.3 / 36.4TB Usable
  • With 1 Hot Spare and Parity it took away 17TB for redundancy? 19.4 / 36.4TB Usable

If I did 0 Hot Spare and Parity, is it still basically RAID 5? so 36.4 total - 7.28 redundancy = 29.12 total after redundancy - 24.3 usable = 4.82TB of overhead taken. That's ridiculous.

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21 hours ago, phongle123 said:

@dalekphalm, @leadeater

8So a simple restart fixed my 2TB / 7.28TB issue. I want to make sure I'm heading the right direction forward.

Do I click on the new storage pool then do I set all of them as Automatic or 1 of them as hot spare?

  • I did 4 Automatic and 1 Hot Spare and the total capacity showed 36.4TB instead of 29.12 since 1 of it is a spare.

I went on to create the Virtual Disk, selected Parity, Fixed size.

  • I stopped here, it only goes to a maximum of 19.4TB out of 36.4TB with all 5 drives.

I want to set this up as a Raid 5. It should have a maximum of 29.12TB for 4x7.28TB drives and the 1 Parity for redundancy ( instead of 19.4TB like it shows). Or did the 1 Hot Spare and Selecting Parity counted it as 2 redundancy drives?

 

edit: With all 5 on automatic and 0 hot spares. Setting Parity, Fixed only has a max of 24.3TB. What's up with that?

  • So with 0 Hot spare and Parity it took away 12.1TB for redundancy? 24.3 / 36.4TB Usable
  • With 1 Hot Spare and Parity it took away 17TB for redundancy? 19.4 / 36.4TB Usable

If I did 0 Hot Spare and Parity, is it still basically RAID 5? so 36.4 total - 7.28 redundancy = 29.12 total after redundancy - 24.3 usable = 4.82TB of overhead taken. That's ridiculous.

So a hot spare is a HDD plugged into the system that is NOT part of the active pool. It just sits there doing nothing. 

 

What is it for? A hot spare is for when one of the drives dies. Instead of having to shut down the system, take out the dead drive, and put in a replacement, the hot spare automatically takes over from the dead drive (and initiates a rebuild). 

 

Spare = spare replacement drive 

Hot = it’s connected to the computer and detected by the OS

 

a cold spare would be if you bought an extra drive but kept it on a shelf just in case. 

 

For your purpose, I would probably not use any hot spares. 

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@phongle123

Also Pool capacity is calculated on total raw capacity of all disks in the pool before any type of RAID calculation. It has to be done that way as you can make multiple volumes in the pool with different configurations that equates to different usable capacity and raw capacity used to achieve it.

 

The pool could have 10TB of capacity but if you make one large two-way mirror volume the usable capacity is 5TB however required 10TB raw to create it. You could also make a 2.5TB two-way mirror volume and a 5TB simple volume which together would also use 10TB raw capacity.

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16 minutes ago, leadeater said:

@phongle123

Also Pool capacity is calculated on total raw capacity of all disks in the pool before any type of RAID calculation. It has to be done that way as you can make multiple volumes in the pool with different configurations that equates to different usable capacity and raw capacity used to achieve it.

 

The pool could have 10TB of capacity but if you make one large two-way mirror volume the usable capacity is 5TB however required 10TB raw to create it. You could also make a 2.5TB two-way mirror volume and a 5TB simple volume which together would also use 10TB raw capacity.

While a bit confusing and not-intuitive, this is actually one of the really special things I like about Storage Spaces.

 

The "pool", and how you actually use that pool, are two different layers.

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28 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

While a bit confusing and not-intuitive, this is actually one of the really special things I like about Storage Spaces.

 

The "pool", and how you actually use that pool, are two different layers.

Yea if you're more used to FreeNAS/ZFS or other storage products where you define the resiliency settings when creating Disk/RAID groups or Pools then it's the complete opposite of what you'd be expecting.

 

Personally I far prefer the Storage Spaces way of doing it:

  • These disks are in a pool, those disks are in a different pool
  • In this pool I want to create a volume/virtual disk of this size with this resiliency requirement

It actually allows you to make much more efficient use of your hardware and raw capacity while also allowing you to better tailor your storage requirement to the workload requirement without having to use a different set of disks or a different dedicated pool for it.

 

The down side is it's a little more complicated to manage since you are not dealing with a fixed configuration so in the event of a hardware failure you need to assess the risk and the priority of replacing the failed hardware very carefully as there might be a single volume in the pool that can only survive a single failure where the rest could survive two or more. In the case where a second disk fails only a single volume could go offline in the Pool so it may not be immediately clear what has happened and why.

 

It gets even more complicated when you start using Tiers in a Pool, as disks in a Pool can be in a Tier and different disks in the same Pool can be in a different Tier. Then you can create a virtual disk that only exists on one of the Tiers while another could be on a different Tier or spread across multiple Tiers, you would do that when you want to have for example a virtual disk of 10TB in size but need it to be high performance so have 2TB of it on an SSD Tier. Hot/active data will be on the SSD Tier and inactive data on the HDD Tier. Now you have to track hardware failures not just in Pools across virtual disks of different resiliency settings but now compound that by having to track hardware failures in Pools per Tier per virtual disk, a disk failure could make only a single volume go offline in a Pool due to one of the Tiers while the other Tier is fine for that virtual disk.

 

Storage Spaces is actually extremely power and flexible but to make full use of it's features you really need to be well versed in storage technologies and have a high degree of practical experience then also have a good understanding of how Storage Spaces works in fine detail. Without this it's best to stick with very simple configurations and not get too fancy, down side to that is you won't get the best out of Storage Spaces and particularly with Parity it's going to perform fairly badly compared to other options like ZFS.

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